1 00:00:21,940 --> 00:00:09,110 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:28,390 --> 00:00:24,830 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:32,330 --> 00:00:28,400 episode number 342 for the tenth of may 4 00:00:35,510 --> 00:00:32,340 2015 and if it's your birthday today 5 00:00:38,869 --> 00:00:35,520 happy birthday Richard Saunders here 6 00:00:44,750 --> 00:00:38,879 with you from Sydney Australia with Fred 7 00:00:47,450 --> 00:00:44,760 the cat hello Fred oh that's the sound 8 00:00:50,540 --> 00:00:47,460 of a cat sniffing a microphone yeah he's 9 00:00:53,899 --> 00:00:50,550 not very chatty tonight what's coming up 10 00:00:56,479 --> 00:00:53,909 on this week's show the raw skeptic 11 00:00:58,579 --> 00:00:56,489 report with highly Robinson Heidi is 12 00:01:01,610 --> 00:00:58,589 going to review do a book review she's 13 00:01:04,670 --> 00:01:01,620 going to review the book relax it's just 14 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:04,680 God bye Wendy thomas russell now this is 15 00:01:08,510 --> 00:01:07,290 a book aimed at parents everywhere about 16 00:01:10,850 --> 00:01:08,520 what it's like to have that conversation 17 00:01:14,030 --> 00:01:10,860 with your kids when they ask about God 18 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:14,040 and religion and what should the 19 00:01:19,310 --> 00:01:16,890 skeptical parents say what should the 20 00:01:21,609 --> 00:01:19,320 skeptical parents a highly reviews the 21 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:21,619 book and give some of her own insights 22 00:01:26,510 --> 00:01:24,570 along the way from her own experience 23 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:26,520 really interesting stuff following that 24 00:01:29,630 --> 00:01:28,170 it's a week in science for our good 25 00:01:34,030 --> 00:01:29,640 friends at the Royal Institution of 26 00:01:40,970 --> 00:01:38,780 www.start all day you know not and to 27 00:01:44,540 --> 00:01:40,980 round off the show it's an interview I 28 00:01:47,660 --> 00:01:44,550 did last year late last year with James 29 00:01:49,430 --> 00:01:47,670 Valentine on Sydney radio 702 now this 30 00:01:53,030 --> 00:01:49,440 was just before the national convention 31 00:01:56,180 --> 00:01:53,040 last year and James asked me about that 32 00:01:58,580 --> 00:01:56,190 but also lots of really wide ranging 33 00:02:01,210 --> 00:01:58,590 skeptical comments and talk and general 34 00:02:04,310 --> 00:02:01,220 stuff and I take some call back 35 00:02:07,999 --> 00:02:04,320 questions as well now for those people 36 00:02:10,820 --> 00:02:08,009 in Sydney I'm pleased to say that well 37 00:02:12,759 --> 00:02:10,830 from right now in other words night time 38 00:02:15,949 --> 00:02:12,769 when i'm recording this but if you go to 39 00:02:18,790 --> 00:02:15,959 204 to cafe and deli in King Street 40 00:02:21,890 --> 00:02:18,800 Newtown you can see some of my 41 00:02:24,199 --> 00:02:21,900 photography on display on the wall and 42 00:02:26,570 --> 00:02:24,209 in fact you could even buy some if you 43 00:02:28,610 --> 00:02:26,580 feel so inclined that money goes to help 44 00:02:31,190 --> 00:02:28,620 the skeptic zone or just go along for a 45 00:02:32,130 --> 00:02:31,200 coffee they make wonderful hamburgers 46 00:02:34,140 --> 00:02:32,140 and 47 00:02:38,460 --> 00:02:34,150 their eggs benedict to salmon is really 48 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:38,470 good to check it out it's very exciting 49 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:40,450 first time I've had a photography 50 00:02:45,270 --> 00:02:43,090 exhibition also I'd like to give a big 51 00:02:47,670 --> 00:02:45,280 shout out to our friends then Morty 52 00:02:49,620 --> 00:02:47,680 skeptics down there in Victoria just 53 00:02:52,710 --> 00:02:49,630 south of melbourne if you're in that 54 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:52,720 area and Google Morty skeptics mor di 55 00:02:58,860 --> 00:02:55,930 skeptics what a what a welcoming Bunch 56 00:03:01,260 --> 00:02:58,870 they are and they have usually have a 57 00:03:03,570 --> 00:03:01,270 good lineup of speakers throughout the 58 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:03,580 year as do our friends in the camera the 59 00:03:07,229 --> 00:03:05,650 Canberra skeptics it's one of the most 60 00:03:08,310 --> 00:03:07,239 pleasing things about being a skeptic I 61 00:03:10,590 --> 00:03:08,320 think knowing there are lots of 62 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:10,600 like-minded people out there not just 63 00:03:14,610 --> 00:03:12,850 sitting at home but getting out there 64 00:03:16,650 --> 00:03:14,620 and putting on talks inviting people 65 00:03:19,259 --> 00:03:16,660 having a good time skeptics in the pub 66 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:19,269 is a wonderful a wonderful initiative I 67 00:03:24,750 --> 00:03:21,970 think ah later this month we've got a 68 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:24,760 Sydney skeptic camp I would certainly be 69 00:03:29,100 --> 00:03:27,130 there to report I uncle hope mean art 70 00:03:32,370 --> 00:03:29,110 and Joe alabaster will be there as well 71 00:03:34,650 --> 00:03:32,380 but as ever you can just google your 72 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:34,660 local skeptics in the pub or skeptical 73 00:03:39,210 --> 00:03:37,450 activity wherever you are in the world 74 00:03:42,420 --> 00:03:39,220 and if there is no skeptics in the pub 75 00:03:45,020 --> 00:03:42,430 where you are well why not start one and 76 00:03:48,780 --> 00:03:45,030 a big shout out to our friends in in 77 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:48,790 Scandinavia my goodness me the Swedish 78 00:03:53,970 --> 00:03:52,570 skeptics the Norwegian skeptics I think 79 00:03:55,620 --> 00:03:53,980 pretty soon we're going to be hearing 80 00:03:56,940 --> 00:03:55,630 from the finish skeptics although is 81 00:04:00,030 --> 00:03:56,950 that Scandinavia I don't think it's 82 00:04:03,509 --> 00:04:00,040 quite anything whatever whoa here for 83 00:04:06,030 --> 00:04:03,519 the case is all around the world huh so 84 00:04:09,620 --> 00:04:06,040 but enough of that it's time for me not 85 00:04:15,060 --> 00:04:09,630 to run anywhere because right here i 86 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:15,070 have my what is it curry and rice curry 87 00:04:20,610 --> 00:04:18,370 and rice lentil curry I think while I'm 88 00:04:41,070 --> 00:04:20,620 enjoying that I hope you enjoy the 89 00:04:52,300 --> 00:04:45,040 it's the raw skeptic report with Heidi 90 00:05:00,170 --> 00:04:57,350 hi everyone background noises you may or 91 00:05:04,910 --> 00:05:00,180 may not hear this week come to you 92 00:05:09,740 --> 00:05:04,920 courtesy over my dogs and my children 93 00:05:11,510 --> 00:05:09,750 let's see how we go this week I'm going 94 00:05:14,150 --> 00:05:11,520 to chat about a book I've just finished 95 00:05:17,630 --> 00:05:14,160 the book was sent to Richard a few weeks 96 00:05:19,370 --> 00:05:17,640 ago by the author's PR person and I put 97 00:05:21,740 --> 00:05:19,380 my hand up to read it and have a talk 98 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:21,750 about it on the skeptic zone it 99 00:05:27,110 --> 00:05:24,090 interested me in particular as I'm at a 100 00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:27,120 point as a skeptical parent at which the 101 00:05:34,460 --> 00:05:28,850 subject matter is becoming increasingly 102 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:34,470 relevant for me the book is titled relax 103 00:05:40,550 --> 00:05:38,130 it's just God how and why to talk to 104 00:05:44,380 --> 00:05:40,560 your kids about religion when you're not 105 00:05:46,940 --> 00:05:44,390 religious bye Wendy thomas russell 106 00:05:48,650 --> 00:05:46,950 religion is somewhat of a difficult 107 00:05:50,870 --> 00:05:48,660 subject to tackle at the best of times 108 00:05:53,060 --> 00:05:50,880 in the sense that the issue generates 109 00:05:56,210 --> 00:05:53,070 strong opinions that can sometimes make 110 00:05:59,260 --> 00:05:56,220 for passionate and sometimes unpleasant 111 00:06:01,490 --> 00:05:59,270 dialogue amongst many people I 112 00:06:05,540 --> 00:06:01,500 appreciate that there are some skeptics 113 00:06:08,060 --> 00:06:05,550 that are atheists some agnostic some who 114 00:06:11,390 --> 00:06:08,070 described themselves as humanists free 115 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:11,400 thinkers pluralists whilst some 116 00:06:17,030 --> 00:06:14,130 altogether indifferent it's just not an 117 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:17,040 important part of their lives and of 118 00:06:20,270 --> 00:06:18,570 course there are others who don't really 119 00:06:22,730 --> 00:06:20,280 fit into any of those so-called 120 00:06:25,310 --> 00:06:22,740 categories of course there are also 121 00:06:29,110 --> 00:06:25,320 skeptics and scientists who have strong 122 00:06:31,730 --> 00:06:29,120 religious beliefs we are a diverse Bunch 123 00:06:33,710 --> 00:06:31,740 my own views on religion have changed 124 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:33,720 over the years and the relevant question 125 00:06:40,850 --> 00:06:36,770 for me now as a skeptic parent and 126 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:40,860 atheist is how and why I should educate 127 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:44,370 my children about religion or even if I 128 00:06:48,710 --> 00:06:46,410 should at all I would love some feedback 129 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:48,720 from you after you hear this report 130 00:06:53,870 --> 00:06:50,730 about whether you agree with the author 131 00:06:56,900 --> 00:06:53,880 disagree and what your own experiences 132 00:06:58,550 --> 00:06:56,910 and opinions are and have been i'll give 133 00:07:00,260 --> 00:06:58,560 you the contact details at the end of 134 00:07:03,290 --> 00:07:00,270 this report if you'd like to get in 135 00:07:05,830 --> 00:07:03,300 touch Wendy thomas russell the author 136 00:07:08,980 --> 00:07:05,840 describes herself as quote 137 00:07:11,390 --> 00:07:08,990 science-minded non-believer an 138 00:07:15,730 --> 00:07:11,400 award-winning journalist author and 139 00:07:18,499 --> 00:07:15,740 secular parenting blogger end quote 140 00:07:20,749 --> 00:07:18,509 she's a former newspaper reporter and 141 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:20,759 lives with her husband and daughter in 142 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:24,690 California the author begins by relating 143 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:26,970 an incident with her then five-year-old 144 00:07:31,070 --> 00:07:29,370 daughter in which she was driving with 145 00:07:34,809 --> 00:07:31,080 her in the car when the daughter piped 146 00:07:40,010 --> 00:07:34,819 up out of the blue as five year olds do 147 00:07:42,350 --> 00:07:40,020 mummy you know what God made us to which 148 00:07:45,529 --> 00:07:42,360 mum became speechless with fear and 149 00:07:48,230 --> 00:07:45,539 anxiety she describes feeling totally 150 00:07:53,119 --> 00:07:48,240 unprepared and unsure of how to respond 151 00:07:56,510 --> 00:07:53,129 i can relate my son also recently piped 152 00:07:58,700 --> 00:07:56,520 up in the backseat of the car mum you 153 00:08:01,010 --> 00:07:58,710 know how ma says stuff before we eat 154 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:01,020 dinner and then says are men at the end 155 00:08:08,629 --> 00:08:04,530 is I mean something to do with the x-men 156 00:08:11,209 --> 00:08:08,639 or what yep I nearly drove off the road 157 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:11,219 and suddenly realized with not a small 158 00:08:16,730 --> 00:08:14,130 amount of guilty mother syndrome that my 159 00:08:21,469 --> 00:08:16,740 kids have no religious literacy 160 00:08:24,499 --> 00:08:21,479 whatsoever that son my eldest who is 8 161 00:08:27,939 --> 00:08:24,509 seems to have a naturally inquiring and 162 00:08:32,089 --> 00:08:27,949 skeptical mind when I explained that ma 163 00:08:35,659 --> 00:08:32,099 grandma believes in God he was quiet for 164 00:08:38,260 --> 00:08:35,669 a while before saying I don't get why 165 00:08:41,089 --> 00:08:38,270 adults need to have imaginary friends I 166 00:08:43,370 --> 00:08:41,099 had to stifle a giggle whilst at the 167 00:08:46,790 --> 00:08:43,380 same time wondering how I should tackle 168 00:08:48,949 --> 00:08:46,800 that I needn't have worried right then 169 00:08:50,870 --> 00:08:48,959 and there because he went on to ask what 170 00:08:53,510 --> 00:08:50,880 was for dinner and that was the end of 171 00:08:57,380 --> 00:08:53,520 that at least for the time being two 172 00:09:00,319 --> 00:08:57,390 weekends ago my son who is 6 that's my 173 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:00,329 other son was looking at a piece of art 174 00:09:05,030 --> 00:09:02,970 at the markets depicting Jesus at the 175 00:09:08,780 --> 00:09:05,040 Last Supper with cartoon characters 176 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:08,790 depicted in place of the disciples we 177 00:09:15,260 --> 00:09:11,370 went through who each cartoon character 178 00:09:17,150 --> 00:09:15,270 was with no trouble we came to Jesus he 179 00:09:20,809 --> 00:09:17,160 said in a loud voice 180 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:20,819 he's no cartoon character who the hell 181 00:09:29,030 --> 00:09:25,290 is he to the somewhat amused glances of 182 00:09:31,189 --> 00:09:29,040 the people surrounding us hmm it seems I 183 00:09:35,119 --> 00:09:31,199 am at that point at which I can no 184 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:35,129 longer ignore the issue what this book 185 00:09:38,689 --> 00:09:36,810 has helped me with is how I might 186 00:09:40,569 --> 00:09:38,699 approach the issue in a way that will 187 00:09:43,309 --> 00:09:40,579 encourage critical thinking without 188 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:43,319 indoctrination into any one religion or 189 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:46,410 in fact into indoctrination into my own 190 00:09:52,819 --> 00:09:50,850 lack of belief the author began her 191 00:09:54,710 --> 00:09:52,829 mission to find out how best to deal 192 00:09:57,019 --> 00:09:54,720 with the issue of religious literacy 193 00:09:59,689 --> 00:09:57,029 after her daughter's statement in the 194 00:10:02,379 --> 00:09:59,699 car she interviewed parents who were 195 00:10:05,889 --> 00:10:02,389 both religious and non-religious 196 00:10:09,050 --> 00:10:05,899 parenting experts religious scholars 197 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:09,060 psychologists secular leaders and more 198 00:10:17,269 --> 00:10:13,050 the end result she says quote I wrote 199 00:10:19,639 --> 00:10:17,279 the book I wanted to read the issues the 200 00:10:21,710 --> 00:10:19,649 book looks at are specifically how to 201 00:10:24,860 --> 00:10:21,720 deal with young children about your 202 00:10:28,550 --> 00:10:24,870 beliefs or non beliefs in an open and 203 00:10:31,249 --> 00:10:28,560 truthful manner that quote promotes 204 00:10:34,249 --> 00:10:31,259 kindness compassion and critical 205 00:10:37,460 --> 00:10:34,259 thinking end quote how to deal with 206 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:37,470 religious relatives how to teach kids to 207 00:10:42,980 --> 00:10:40,410 be tolerant of others beliefs how to 208 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:42,990 talk about death without using religious 209 00:10:48,410 --> 00:10:45,810 imagery for backup and how to give kids 210 00:10:51,470 --> 00:10:48,420 religious literacy without boring them 211 00:10:54,170 --> 00:10:51,480 in speaking with parents Russell found 212 00:10:56,689 --> 00:10:54,180 10 main challenges that parents were 213 00:10:59,870 --> 00:10:56,699 experiencing in discussing religion with 214 00:11:02,120 --> 00:10:59,880 their children I wonder if any of these 215 00:11:04,460 --> 00:11:02,130 points resonate with you as they did 216 00:11:07,929 --> 00:11:04,470 with me whether or not you have any 217 00:11:10,970 --> 00:11:07,939 religious beliefs number one 218 00:11:13,970 --> 00:11:10,980 indoctrination not knowing how to be 219 00:11:17,420 --> 00:11:13,980 honest without indoctrinating kids into 220 00:11:19,460 --> 00:11:17,430 one way of thinking number two language 221 00:11:21,710 --> 00:11:19,470 fear of saying something to their 222 00:11:25,759 --> 00:11:21,720 children that would be repeated in mixed 223 00:11:27,740 --> 00:11:25,769 company number three family having to 224 00:11:29,900 --> 00:11:27,750 contradict a religious family members 225 00:11:33,460 --> 00:11:29,910 while trying to keep peace in 226 00:11:37,220 --> 00:11:33,470 Emily number four age appropriateness 227 00:11:41,530 --> 00:11:37,230 not knowing what age appropriate for 228 00:11:44,540 --> 00:11:41,540 children to hear number five resentment 229 00:11:47,210 --> 00:11:44,550 keeping their own negative experiences 230 00:11:52,220 --> 00:11:47,220 or resentment out of conversations with 231 00:11:54,170 --> 00:11:52,230 their children number six death facing 232 00:11:56,650 --> 00:11:54,180 conversations about death without the 233 00:12:00,260 --> 00:11:56,660 comforts of heaven or an afterlife 234 00:12:02,630 --> 00:12:00,270 number seven tolerance separating the 235 00:12:05,390 --> 00:12:02,640 idea of religious tolerance from the 236 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:05,400 idea of tolerating religious hatred or 237 00:12:14,530 --> 00:12:10,530 abuse number eight confusion fear of 238 00:12:16,910 --> 00:12:14,540 confusing a child number nine belief 239 00:12:20,570 --> 00:12:16,920 fear that if a child hears about 240 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:20,580 religion she or he might start believing 241 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:24,290 it and number ten religious literacy 242 00:12:30,410 --> 00:12:26,610 limited knowledge of religion or 243 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:30,420 religious stories there were many other 244 00:12:34,660 --> 00:12:32,490 points in the book that struck a chord 245 00:12:38,570 --> 00:12:34,670 with me and I'll just mention a couple 246 00:12:40,730 --> 00:12:38,580 firstly a quote by Austin Klein a former 247 00:12:45,260 --> 00:12:40,740 director of the Council for secular 248 00:12:47,210 --> 00:12:45,270 humanism quote avoiding discussions 249 00:12:50,540 --> 00:12:47,220 about religion is like avoiding 250 00:12:52,970 --> 00:12:50,550 discussions about sex the parent isn't 251 00:12:55,190 --> 00:12:52,980 made to feel uncomfortable but the child 252 00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:55,200 is left on their own without rudder or 253 00:13:02,150 --> 00:13:00,000 guidance end quote he goes on to say 254 00:13:04,220 --> 00:13:02,160 that in some circumstances this will 255 00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:04,230 lead children into seeking their answers 256 00:13:09,020 --> 00:13:06,720 elsewhere and being vulnerable to all 257 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:09,030 sorts of beliefs that may in extreme 258 00:13:14,420 --> 00:13:13,050 cases be potentially harmful the other 259 00:13:16,940 --> 00:13:14,430 point that really stood out for me was 260 00:13:19,340 --> 00:13:16,950 the fact that it is undeniable that 261 00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:19,350 religion whether or not we like it is 262 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:23,760 everywhere it is quote in our art and 263 00:13:30,380 --> 00:13:27,330 architecture music and literature plays 264 00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:30,390 poetry and movies it's steeped in our 265 00:13:35,300 --> 00:13:33,570 language expression and cliches it fills 266 00:13:39,740 --> 00:13:35,310 our history books and guides our 267 00:13:42,290 --> 00:13:39,750 politics and quote in not teaching our 268 00:13:43,950 --> 00:13:42,300 kids comparative religion do we run the 269 00:13:46,620 --> 00:13:43,960 risk of doing them a 270 00:13:48,290 --> 00:13:46,630 service by possibly denying them a 271 00:13:52,650 --> 00:13:48,300 deeper understanding of history 272 00:13:55,020 --> 00:13:52,660 philosophy art architecture and the rest 273 00:13:59,100 --> 00:13:55,030 of the aforementioned areas of culture 274 00:14:01,380 --> 00:13:59,110 and aspects of everyday life the author 275 00:14:02,730 --> 00:14:01,390 is supportive of parents who expose 276 00:14:05,850 --> 00:14:02,740 their children at an age appropriate 277 00:14:08,220 --> 00:14:05,860 level two religions and beliefs as well 278 00:14:10,230 --> 00:14:08,230 as non religious philosophies of all 279 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:10,240 kinds in a manner that invites 280 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:11,890 questioning tolerance and an 281 00:14:16,350 --> 00:14:14,290 understanding of how religion or non 282 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:16,360 religion fits into their own culture and 283 00:14:22,410 --> 00:14:19,930 others she argues that in resisting the 284 00:14:25,010 --> 00:14:22,420 urge to sway our children's beliefs and 285 00:14:27,990 --> 00:14:25,020 opinions so that they align with our own 286 00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:28,000 we are empowering them by allowing them 287 00:14:32,820 --> 00:14:30,160 to realize that their own opinions are 288 00:14:35,130 --> 00:14:32,830 important and that the process by which 289 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:35,140 they come to form those opinions is 290 00:14:40,950 --> 00:14:39,010 equally if not more important it is this 291 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:40,960 process of critical thinking that 292 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:43,570 parents can teach their kids and in so 293 00:14:47,790 --> 00:14:45,610 doing trust that their kids will form 294 00:14:52,140 --> 00:14:47,800 their own world views with intelligence 295 00:14:54,450 --> 00:14:52,150 and a healthy dose of skepticism she 296 00:14:57,150 --> 00:14:54,460 gives practical tips on how to talk to 297 00:14:58,920 --> 00:14:57,160 kids for example not to overwhelm them 298 00:15:01,740 --> 00:14:58,930 with information but rather let the 299 00:15:04,620 --> 00:15:01,750 child take the lead and ask questions as 300 00:15:07,860 --> 00:15:04,630 they come up to use opportunities in 301 00:15:09,630 --> 00:15:07,870 everyday life to educate and inform for 302 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:09,640 instance if a child sees a person 303 00:15:14,790 --> 00:15:11,850 dressed in traditional religious attire 304 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:14,800 use that as an example to talk to the 305 00:15:18,750 --> 00:15:16,810 child about why they dress that way and 306 00:15:22,890 --> 00:15:18,760 the basis of the beliefs that lead them 307 00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:22,900 to do so to recognize not only Christmas 308 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:25,510 and Easter but all religious holidays 309 00:15:32,820 --> 00:15:28,330 and educate them about what they mean to 310 00:15:35,660 --> 00:15:32,830 those groups of people the book is 173 311 00:15:38,130 --> 00:15:35,670 pages of easy-to-read practical and 312 00:15:41,940 --> 00:15:38,140 informative information for parents who 313 00:15:45,060 --> 00:15:41,950 are unsure of how to or how not to bring 314 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:45,070 their kids up with religion it's written 315 00:15:49,950 --> 00:15:47,710 in the style of one parent talking to 316 00:15:52,620 --> 00:15:49,960 another parent with examples of the 317 00:15:55,100 --> 00:15:52,630 authors and others experiences thrown in 318 00:15:57,750 --> 00:15:55,110 to illustrate some of the points made 319 00:16:00,090 --> 00:15:57,760 it's useful also for those 320 00:16:02,090 --> 00:16:00,100 who are religious in opening up avenues 321 00:16:04,470 --> 00:16:02,100 of thought about religious tolerance 322 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:04,480 giving them an understanding about what 323 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:07,210 secular parents may be worried about in 324 00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:09,010 relation to their children's religious 325 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:12,310 upbringing or lack thereof and as he's 326 00:16:17,940 --> 00:16:15,010 mentioned in the book basic guidelines 327 00:16:23,010 --> 00:16:17,950 about how not to be a dick about the 328 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:23,020 subject I have so far avoided taking my 329 00:16:27,450 --> 00:16:25,690 children to a church because of an 330 00:16:29,730 --> 00:16:27,460 incident that occurred at my son's 331 00:16:32,220 --> 00:16:29,740 school during the one and only religious 332 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:32,230 education session he had at his 333 00:16:38,460 --> 00:16:34,810 government school he was five years old 334 00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:38,470 and came home visibly upset I finally 335 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:40,240 got it out of him that he had been told 336 00:16:47,460 --> 00:16:44,890 that Jesus died for his sins even now 337 00:16:50,460 --> 00:16:47,470 three years later he sometimes brings 338 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:50,470 that up still unsure of how he might 339 00:16:56,820 --> 00:16:53,530 have caused someone else to die despite 340 00:16:58,260 --> 00:16:56,830 my efforts at reassuring him I'm now in 341 00:17:00,060 --> 00:16:58,270 a position where I've realized that I 342 00:17:02,550 --> 00:17:00,070 want to be the one in charge of his 343 00:17:04,350 --> 00:17:02,560 religious education I want to be the one 344 00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:04,360 to guide him and his brother in this 345 00:17:09,660 --> 00:17:07,510 it's too important to ignore it's too 346 00:17:12,329 --> 00:17:09,670 important to be scared of it or heaven 347 00:17:16,170 --> 00:17:12,339 forbid excuse the pun leave it up to 348 00:17:17,970 --> 00:17:16,180 others to do it it's certainly not only 349 00:17:20,340 --> 00:17:17,980 Christianity that I will be talking to 350 00:17:22,949 --> 00:17:20,350 them about I'll tell them the good the 351 00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:22,959 bad and the ugly at appropriate times 352 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:26,130 I'll educate myself more in the process 353 00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:28,690 about the different religions and try to 354 00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:31,510 be as honest with them as I can letting 355 00:17:36,030 --> 00:17:33,520 their critical thinking skills develop 356 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:36,040 without trying to sway them in any one 357 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:39,250 direction I need to let them see that I 358 00:17:44,340 --> 00:17:41,650 value their opinions their questions and 359 00:17:47,940 --> 00:17:44,350 that as their mum I will support them 360 00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:47,950 throughout except if they decide to 361 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:51,600 study homeopathy then all bets are off 362 00:17:58,080 --> 00:17:56,170 just kidding I'm taking baby steps and 363 00:17:59,820 --> 00:17:58,090 like a toddler taking baby steps I'm 364 00:18:02,730 --> 00:17:59,830 sure I'll trip up along the way and 365 00:18:05,340 --> 00:18:02,740 probably have the odd tantrum hopefully 366 00:18:07,860 --> 00:18:05,350 not in front of the kids I've already 367 00:18:11,330 --> 00:18:07,870 got Daniel Loxton 'he's evolution book 368 00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:11,340 for kids and right alongside it is 369 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:14,160 runs book of world religions they'll be 370 00:18:20,180 --> 00:18:17,850 getting the lot including pastafarian 371 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:20,190 ism I'm sure the flying spaghetti 372 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:23,010 monster will delight them as much as it 373 00:18:29,570 --> 00:18:27,210 has for me so once again if you're 374 00:18:32,510 --> 00:18:29,580 interested the book is relax it's just 375 00:18:34,670 --> 00:18:32,520 God how and why to talk to your kids 376 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:34,680 about religion when you're not religious 377 00:18:42,050 --> 00:18:39,570 bye Wendy thomas russell if you're a 378 00:18:43,970 --> 00:18:42,060 parent how have you tackled the religion 379 00:18:46,550 --> 00:18:43,980 and kids thing if you're not a parent 380 00:18:48,650 --> 00:18:46,560 what do you think if you're a skeptic 381 00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:48,660 and hold religious beliefs what are your 382 00:18:54,530 --> 00:18:51,600 thoughts if you'd like to share your own 383 00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:54,540 opinions and/or experiences about 384 00:18:58,870 --> 00:18:56,370 bringing kids up with or without 385 00:19:01,760 --> 00:18:58,880 religion we'd love to hear from you 386 00:19:04,340 --> 00:19:01,770 visit the skeptic zone podcast on 387 00:19:06,910 --> 00:19:04,350 facebook and leave your comments on the 388 00:19:09,410 --> 00:19:06,920 thread we will post on this subject 389 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:09,420 alternatively the skeptic zone can be 390 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:13,050 found on twitter as can I at the twitter 391 00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:20,610 handle heidi howdy which is hidi h.o.w d 392 00:19:28,610 --> 00:19:26,160 I thanks everyone bye for now I'm off to 393 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:28,620 put a colander on my head and play with 394 00:19:40,430 --> 00:19:37,050 the kids on Maynard calm da are you a 395 00:19:42,770 --> 00:19:40,440 burger why the inner city is even 396 00:19:45,110 --> 00:19:42,780 involved in making decisions about what 397 00:19:46,670 --> 00:19:45,120 happens in the country it eludes me 398 00:19:49,070 --> 00:19:46,680 somebody said all your butt fracking 399 00:19:52,250 --> 00:19:49,080 gets into the water systems does it 400 00:19:54,170 --> 00:19:52,260 prove it no doubt you already got your 401 00:19:56,270 --> 00:19:54,180 umbrage on you've got your chest puffed 402 00:19:58,190 --> 00:19:56,280 out and you can't believe that someone 403 00:20:01,400 --> 00:19:58,200 would say this the trouble with fracking 404 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:01,410 is it's still going on and its ongoing 405 00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:06,210 and the problems it's causing are yet to 406 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:09,600 be clearly defined you clearly define 407 00:20:13,970 --> 00:20:11,610 those and no government will be able to 408 00:20:16,460 --> 00:20:13,980 allow it at the moment there's too much 409 00:20:20,060 --> 00:20:16,470 wiggle room in the effects of fracking 410 00:20:23,030 --> 00:20:20,070 so nail it and then when the the 411 00:20:23,940 --> 00:20:23,040 argument but at the moment farmers many 412 00:20:26,129 --> 00:20:23,950 of them are 413 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:26,139 with fracking because it's keeping them 414 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:28,330 alive thanks very much to all those 415 00:20:32,580 --> 00:20:30,610 people in the inner city but start 416 00:20:34,409 --> 00:20:32,590 putting your thinking caps on and get 417 00:20:36,299 --> 00:20:34,419 out of your VW and start walking like 418 00:20:41,509 --> 00:20:36,309 real people quickly let's move on to 419 00:20:49,529 --> 00:20:45,659 what's gonna happen now on Manor calm da 420 00:20:51,509 --> 00:20:49,539 are you welcome to a week in science 421 00:20:53,700 --> 00:20:51,519 from our iOS bringing you the science 422 00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:53,710 you need to know the moon landing was 423 00:20:58,289 --> 00:20:56,320 faked 9-11 was an inside job and Barack 424 00:20:59,940 --> 00:20:58,299 Obama was born in Kenya what do these 425 00:21:02,129 --> 00:20:59,950 things have in common well the 426 00:21:07,889 --> 00:21:02,139 conspiracy theories so why do people 427 00:21:09,810 --> 00:21:07,899 fall for such falsehoods we've all had 428 00:21:12,060 --> 00:21:09,820 outlandish tales of aliens the 429 00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:12,070 Illuminati and lizard people but to 430 00:21:16,740 --> 00:21:14,080 really be considered a conspiracy theory 431 00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:16,750 the Act has to be secret planned and 432 00:21:22,169 --> 00:21:19,200 performed by a group with sinister aims 433 00:21:24,210 --> 00:21:22,179 the scientific method doesn't apply for 434 00:21:26,340 --> 00:21:24,220 conspiracy theorists as research has 435 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:26,350 found their immune to evidence and any 436 00:21:30,870 --> 00:21:28,330 facts will be twisted to fit with the 437 00:21:34,340 --> 00:21:30,880 conspiracy theory no one of any age 438 00:21:37,409 --> 00:21:34,350 gender race income politics education 439 00:21:39,299 --> 00:21:37,419 occupation or intelligence level is more 440 00:21:41,460 --> 00:21:39,309 or less likely to believe in conspiracy 441 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:41,470 theories but which conspiracy theories 442 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:42,970 people believe in a more predictable 443 00:21:47,220 --> 00:21:45,250 those on the right wing tend not to 444 00:21:49,230 --> 00:21:47,230 trust institutions like universities and 445 00:21:50,909 --> 00:21:49,240 though the left of the spectrum are more 446 00:21:55,649 --> 00:21:50,919 likely to place blame on capitalist 447 00:21:57,570 --> 00:21:55,659 corporations while conspiracy theories 448 00:21:59,310 --> 00:21:57,580 themselves are immune to evidence the 449 00:22:01,590 --> 00:21:59,320 psychology behind why people believe 450 00:22:03,539 --> 00:22:01,600 them is not research has shown that 451 00:22:05,639 --> 00:22:03,549 conspiracy theories give people a sense 452 00:22:07,950 --> 00:22:05,649 of control often much needed after 453 00:22:10,139 --> 00:22:07,960 disasters or traumatic events which can 454 00:22:12,629 --> 00:22:10,149 cause stress anxiety and a loss of 455 00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:12,639 control conspiracy theorists are also 456 00:22:17,070 --> 00:22:14,559 more likely to experience cognitive 457 00:22:19,590 --> 00:22:17,080 dissonance this is the mental discomfort 458 00:22:21,269 --> 00:22:19,600 of holding two conflicting views the 459 00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:21,279 theories help explain how two different 460 00:22:25,019 --> 00:22:23,130 things could both be possible and 461 00:22:27,330 --> 00:22:25,029 conspiracy theorists are prone to 462 00:22:29,370 --> 00:22:27,340 confirmation bias where you tend to only 463 00:22:31,529 --> 00:22:29,380 notice evidence which already supports 464 00:22:32,879 --> 00:22:31,539 your opinion well I'm pretty confident 465 00:22:36,060 --> 00:22:32,889 we don't have to bust out the tinfoil 466 00:22:37,139 --> 00:22:36,070 hats just yet but to be on the safe side 467 00:22:39,239 --> 00:22:37,149 I 468 00:22:41,849 --> 00:22:39,249 one welcome our new insect overlords and 469 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:41,859 now for fast facts about conspiracy 470 00:22:48,509 --> 00:22:46,330 theories the term conspiracy theory has 471 00:22:51,079 --> 00:22:48,519 been in use for over a century making 472 00:22:53,700 --> 00:22:51,089 its first confirmed appearance in 1909 473 00:22:55,169 --> 00:22:53,710 originally a neutral term in the wake of 474 00:22:57,810 --> 00:22:55,179 president john f kennedy's assassination 475 00:22:59,969 --> 00:22:57,820 the phrase began to develop its current 476 00:23:01,619 --> 00:22:59,979 connotation with paranoia the most 477 00:23:03,239 --> 00:23:01,629 reliable way to predict whether someone 478 00:23:05,219 --> 00:23:03,249 will believe in a conspiracy theory is 479 00:23:07,289 --> 00:23:05,229 that they believe in other conspiracy 480 00:23:09,329 --> 00:23:07,299 theories one quick way to debunk a 481 00:23:11,519 --> 00:23:09,339 conspiracy theory is to ask does it 482 00:23:14,129 --> 00:23:11,529 affect the rich and powerful if so it's 483 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:14,139 likely just a theory that's it for this 484 00:23:18,570 --> 00:23:16,450 week in science for more information on 485 00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:18,580 conspiracy theories go to the RI odds 486 00:23:25,529 --> 00:23:23,200 website RI aus org dot a you follow us 487 00:23:27,810 --> 00:23:25,539 on twitter at our iOS and like us on 488 00:23:43,450 --> 00:23:27,820 Facebook I'm Casey Harrigan and we'll 489 00:23:47,630 --> 00:23:45,830 hi there Rose Bowl chair with an 490 00:23:50,180 --> 00:23:47,640 Australian skeptics National Convention 491 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:50,190 update this week we are excited to 492 00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:51,810 announce our final group of speakers 493 00:23:57,020 --> 00:23:54,480 from the USA we are joined by veteran 494 00:23:58,880 --> 00:23:57,030 skeptic campaigner Eugenie Scott we're 495 00:24:01,070 --> 00:23:58,890 also pleased to welcome fear Clark in 496 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:01,080 Chrissy Wilson Dave Hawks will be 497 00:24:04,700 --> 00:24:02,970 joining our parenting skeptically panel 498 00:24:06,620 --> 00:24:04,710 and I am pleased to introduce your host 499 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:06,630 for the event imaginary friend show 500 00:24:10,730 --> 00:24:09,090 producer Jake far Wharton and skeptical 501 00:24:13,730 --> 00:24:10,740 activist and writer chris stevenson 502 00:24:16,670 --> 00:24:13,740 don't forget our other speakers Brian 503 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:16,680 Schmidt Joe Nickell Susan Kovac miles 504 00:24:22,670 --> 00:24:19,770 power Lynn Kelly catan Joshi Loretta 505 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:22,680 Marin John Cook Mel Thompson Peter 506 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:25,410 Ellerton cigna k Nepali worland and our 507 00:24:29,630 --> 00:24:27,330 parenting skeptically panel Joe 508 00:24:31,490 --> 00:24:29,640 alabaster Lauren Cochran and Allison 509 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:31,500 Gaylord i'll also be giving a 510 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:33,450 presentation make sure you arrive in 511 00:24:37,670 --> 00:24:35,610 Brisbane early hour Friday skeptic amp 512 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:37,680 speaker roster is fully booked with some 513 00:24:41,570 --> 00:24:39,570 great submissions and the welcome event 514 00:24:44,090 --> 00:24:41,580 has an evening packed with entertainment 515 00:24:47,270 --> 00:24:44,100 tickets are on sale now at convention 516 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:47,280 brisbane skeptics dog ensure your seat 517 00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:49,410 at the front row with our premium and 518 00:24:52,940 --> 00:24:51,360 early bird tickets do you want to help a 519 00:24:55,460 --> 00:24:52,950 student or pension to attend the event 520 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:55,470 you can donate a half or full concession 521 00:24:59,420 --> 00:24:57,810 ticket the australian skeptics national 522 00:25:01,280 --> 00:24:59,430 convention will take place on the 523 00:25:11,690 --> 00:25:01,290 sixteenth to the 18th of October this 524 00:25:16,049 --> 00:25:14,399 what should be skeptical of at the 525 00:25:17,820 --> 00:25:16,059 moment of their particular thing so I 526 00:25:19,979 --> 00:25:17,830 cuz i think is almost like trends and 527 00:25:22,589 --> 00:25:19,989 things we need to be skeptical oh oh 528 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:22,599 there's certain things it might be you 529 00:25:26,489 --> 00:25:24,129 know maybe one point with tarot card 530 00:25:29,399 --> 00:25:26,499 readers and it's kind of spoon bending 531 00:25:32,159 --> 00:25:29,409 maybe now it's kind of like the kind of 532 00:25:33,479 --> 00:25:32,169 people that are contacting your deceased 533 00:25:35,129 --> 00:25:33,489 relatives although I think those are 534 00:25:36,899 --> 00:25:35,139 mediums have been around for a while but 535 00:25:38,369 --> 00:25:36,909 this needs to be television versions of 536 00:25:40,649 --> 00:25:38,379 that which perfectly popular at the 537 00:25:42,389 --> 00:25:40,659 moment so you may have some ideas their 538 00:25:44,070 --> 00:25:42,399 arm of things you've noticed we should 539 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:44,080 be a perhaps a little skeptical off and 540 00:25:48,089 --> 00:25:45,970 then I'm also intrigued about what's the 541 00:25:51,180 --> 00:25:48,099 sort of is there a sort of level of 542 00:25:52,379 --> 00:25:51,190 skepticism that is a healthy level and 543 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:52,389 at some point do you have to have a 544 00:25:56,489 --> 00:25:54,369 certain amount of trust and belief or 545 00:25:59,099 --> 00:25:56,499 you know should you just always be 546 00:26:01,139 --> 00:25:59,109 skeptical the good news is that I've got 547 00:26:03,529 --> 00:26:01,149 Richard Saunders is a life member and 548 00:26:05,909 --> 00:26:03,539 former president Australian skeptics to 549 00:26:08,999 --> 00:26:05,919 discuss these things with as well as you 550 00:26:11,129 --> 00:26:09,009 you can call 1 300 ripple 2702 if you'd 551 00:26:12,810 --> 00:26:11,139 like to if you'd like to join us our 552 00:26:15,330 --> 00:26:12,820 Richard Saunders good afternoon good 553 00:26:17,820 --> 00:26:15,340 afternoon again it's been a long time in 554 00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:17,830 fact i was on the afternoon show 25 555 00:26:25,649 --> 00:26:23,289 years ago doing origami with you this is 556 00:26:29,369 --> 00:26:25,659 the kids through the kids TV show is 557 00:26:30,899 --> 00:26:29,379 funny were you an origami expert i came 558 00:26:32,639 --> 00:26:30,909 in there was a section called keep it 559 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:32,649 clean or something like that and you 560 00:26:35,969 --> 00:26:34,330 were suggesting instead of throwing 561 00:26:37,830 --> 00:26:35,979 paper away we could recycle it by 562 00:26:39,690 --> 00:26:37,840 turning it into Oregon [\h__\h] that was 563 00:26:40,799 --> 00:26:39,700 that there was a genius idea it was why 564 00:26:45,210 --> 00:26:40,809 wasn't that picked up at a national 565 00:26:47,339 --> 00:26:45,220 level i would thats very very funny uh 566 00:26:49,950 --> 00:26:47,349 Richard will lovely to talk to you again 567 00:26:53,609 --> 00:26:49,960 think of it let's do this every 25 years 568 00:26:55,019 --> 00:26:53,619 uh what so you the national conventions 569 00:26:57,659 --> 00:26:55,029 on what kind of things are only on the 570 00:27:00,570 --> 00:26:57,669 menu there everything from Consumer 571 00:27:02,609 --> 00:27:00,580 Affairs too spooky things to talking 572 00:27:04,409 --> 00:27:02,619 with the dead maybe alternative medicine 573 00:27:06,419 --> 00:27:04,419 certainly gets a mention in there in 574 00:27:08,339 --> 00:27:06,429 fact we're really lucky this year we've 575 00:27:09,659 --> 00:27:08,349 got some of the the checkout people the 576 00:27:11,940 --> 00:27:09,669 chase of people coming along for a 577 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:11,950 consumer affairs panel with choice 578 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:13,570 magazine looking forward to that yeah 579 00:27:18,599 --> 00:27:16,330 yep so skip your skepticism is not just 580 00:27:21,149 --> 00:27:18,609 say the paranormal all the old or the 581 00:27:23,369 --> 00:27:21,159 spooky your skepticism the Australian 582 00:27:24,330 --> 00:27:23,379 skeptics are about being well informed 583 00:27:26,789 --> 00:27:24,340 in all area 584 00:27:28,919 --> 00:27:26,799 that it absolutely i mean at hard the 585 00:27:32,159 --> 00:27:28,929 core and the reason we really formed 586 00:27:33,990 --> 00:27:32,169 over 30 years ago was the paranormal 587 00:27:35,610 --> 00:27:34,000 people were skeptical of the claims of 588 00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:35,620 the paranormal talking to the dead 589 00:27:40,470 --> 00:27:38,320 ghosts all that sort of stuff but over 590 00:27:43,460 --> 00:27:40,480 the years its encompassed a wide range 591 00:27:46,169 --> 00:27:43,470 of things a lot to do with claims of 592 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:46,179 alternative medicine and the more and 593 00:27:49,710 --> 00:27:47,770 more consumer affairs I mean if you buy 594 00:27:51,299 --> 00:27:49,720 a product like choice magazine save is 595 00:27:54,450 --> 00:27:51,309 it if it's a shock then it should be 596 00:27:56,519 --> 00:27:54,460 called out mmm the I mean when I was 597 00:27:58,649 --> 00:27:56,529 form do you think the paranormal was 598 00:28:00,149 --> 00:27:58,659 more vigorous in a way or an interest in 599 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:00,159 the paranormal is more more vigorous 600 00:28:04,590 --> 00:28:02,770 yeah it's never it's never completely 601 00:28:06,570 --> 00:28:04,600 gone away there are still lots of people 602 00:28:08,789 --> 00:28:06,580 out there who consult tarot card readers 603 00:28:10,409 --> 00:28:08,799 and go to astrologers or fortune tellers 604 00:28:14,460 --> 00:28:10,419 or even think people can talk with a 605 00:28:16,669 --> 00:28:14,470 dead and that's that that's something 606 00:28:19,980 --> 00:28:16,679 that's really hard to get on top of but 607 00:28:22,110 --> 00:28:19,990 we have really important issues you 608 00:28:24,180 --> 00:28:22,120 might say like the the vaccine deniers 609 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:24,190 people who are encouraging parents not 610 00:28:28,889 --> 00:28:25,690 to vaccinate their children against 611 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:28,899 deadly diseases we find something that 612 00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:31,210 deserves our attention right and is that 613 00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:33,130 is that really would you rather have a 614 00:28:38,909 --> 00:28:36,130 focus on that then the then the ghosts 615 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:38,919 ah personally I like the old-fashioned 616 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:40,210 stuff that's why it's a big organization 617 00:28:47,310 --> 00:28:42,370 we've got people who can specialize I 618 00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:47,320 certainly thinks very strongly about the 619 00:28:51,090 --> 00:28:49,360 vaccination issue my itself in fact I 620 00:28:53,460 --> 00:28:51,100 made a free documentary which is online 621 00:28:54,810 --> 00:28:53,470 called the vaccination Chronicles and if 622 00:28:57,090 --> 00:28:54,820 you google that or YouTube that you'll 623 00:28:59,279 --> 00:28:57,100 find that all about vaccination but it's 624 00:29:02,399 --> 00:28:59,289 hard I love the old-fashioned type 625 00:29:04,139 --> 00:29:02,409 talking to the dead and mind reading and 626 00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:04,149 all that sort of stuff hang on you 627 00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:07,120 saying people can't do that I'm saying 628 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:10,240 that the evidence is really crummy yeah 629 00:29:17,070 --> 00:29:12,850 but so you know I've seen a guy do it 630 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:17,080 have you well look look to prove that 631 00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:18,730 we're not just a bunch of Wales is out 632 00:29:23,519 --> 00:29:20,710 there to spoil everybody's day we have a 633 00:29:25,470 --> 00:29:23,529 prize of a hundred thousand dollars to 634 00:29:28,169 --> 00:29:25,480 the first person who can show us under 635 00:29:30,350 --> 00:29:28,179 mutually agreed fair conditions all 636 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:30,360 above board that they can do any 637 00:29:35,940 --> 00:29:33,730 paranormal or supernatural claim so all 638 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:35,950 I have to do is you know turn up to the 639 00:29:39,020 --> 00:29:37,650 lab and 640 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:39,030 is the objects around or read someone's 641 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:41,130 mind or you know predict the fall of the 642 00:29:45,230 --> 00:29:43,410 cards and there's $100,000 yet not even 643 00:29:47,210 --> 00:29:45,240 the lab they can do it in the comfort of 644 00:29:49,490 --> 00:29:47,220 their own home as long as everyone's 645 00:29:51,860 --> 00:29:49,500 happy with the conditions and you think 646 00:29:53,540 --> 00:29:51,870 after 30 plus years somebody would have 647 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:53,550 collected the money by now notice the 648 00:29:58,340 --> 00:29:56,490 tests are designed for them to pass 649 00:30:01,520 --> 00:29:58,350 right if they have the powers right 650 00:30:03,730 --> 00:30:01,530 haven't found anyone yet not yet but the 651 00:30:06,050 --> 00:30:03,740 prizes there and if somebody gets it 652 00:30:07,910 --> 00:30:06,060 we'd be over the moon because it would 653 00:30:09,950 --> 00:30:07,920 mean that be a whole new branch of 654 00:30:12,380 --> 00:30:09,960 science open up and there'd be Nobel 655 00:30:13,970 --> 00:30:12,390 prizes in solve millions of dollars yeah 656 00:30:15,890 --> 00:30:13,980 I don't think it to be very exciting 657 00:30:17,660 --> 00:30:15,900 Richard Saunders with us from the 658 00:30:19,070 --> 00:30:17,670 Australian skeptics you might have 659 00:30:20,690 --> 00:30:19,080 something that you want to suggest we 660 00:30:23,420 --> 00:30:20,700 should be skeptical about you might have 661 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:23,430 something that's perhaps you know it is 662 00:30:27,950 --> 00:30:25,050 a fashionable sort of thing we should be 663 00:30:28,970 --> 00:30:27,960 skeptical about Matt suggesting he's 664 00:30:31,340 --> 00:30:28,980 feeling fairly skeptical about 665 00:30:34,130 --> 00:30:31,350 superfoods and the kind of claims around 666 00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:34,140 the ancient grains Richard Saunders yeah 667 00:30:38,330 --> 00:30:36,000 that's I would be quite sceptical about 668 00:30:41,290 --> 00:30:38,340 those two any fad diet any fed news 669 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:41,300 tabloid the latest thing this product 670 00:30:46,940 --> 00:30:44,610 the good things will be ironed out over 671 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:46,950 the years the best advice would be to 672 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:49,770 eat a well-balanced diet quite frankly I 673 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:51,570 don't think there are any such things as 674 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:53,970 superfoods it's the old thing people 675 00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:56,130 would rather take a magic pill or what 676 00:30:59,900 --> 00:30:57,930 they think is a superfood then changed 677 00:31:03,200 --> 00:30:59,910 their dietary habits and just eat 678 00:31:04,430 --> 00:31:03,210 healthy food and exercise more 1 302 702 679 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:04,440 is the number if you'd like to join us 680 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:07,650 is it is it like a healthy level of 681 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:08,970 skepticism you think can you be too 682 00:31:14,030 --> 00:31:11,450 skeptical Richard yeah but that's not 683 00:31:16,580 --> 00:31:14,040 then you stop being skeptical you start 684 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:16,590 being a believer once you once you start 685 00:31:21,230 --> 00:31:19,650 believing that something is the case no 686 00:31:23,750 --> 00:31:21,240 matter what that's not being a 687 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:23,760 skepticism a skeptic skeptic is somebody 688 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:26,130 who's open to new evidence but they need 689 00:31:31,790 --> 00:31:29,610 a good proof so i could say I'll never 690 00:31:34,130 --> 00:31:31,800 believed in ghosts end the story go away 691 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:34,140 that's not skeptical that's that's in 692 00:31:39,170 --> 00:31:36,810 the sense being a believer rise right so 693 00:31:41,090 --> 00:31:39,180 if someone can come along with 694 00:31:43,370 --> 00:31:41,100 convincing credible evidence for ghosts 695 00:31:45,380 --> 00:31:43,380 and I would have to change my mind it's 696 00:31:48,140 --> 00:31:45,390 as simple as that hmm i suppose what i 697 00:31:50,780 --> 00:31:48,150 mean though is like at some point you 698 00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:50,790 know it like if you're too if you're 699 00:31:53,810 --> 00:31:51,510 skeptical of 700 00:31:55,940 --> 00:31:53,820 every single moment in a sense then 701 00:31:57,620 --> 00:31:55,950 that's a that's a sort of harsh way to 702 00:31:59,270 --> 00:31:57,630 live or something or you know like this 703 00:32:01,130 --> 00:31:59,280 there'd be something that you'd be a 704 00:32:03,590 --> 00:32:01,140 hard person to be around if everything's 705 00:32:06,650 --> 00:32:03,600 being questioned at every possible time 706 00:32:08,390 --> 00:32:06,660 you would I haven't met anyone like I 707 00:32:09,980 --> 00:32:08,400 think we'd boo them out of the society 708 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:09,990 I've quite frankly no you can't live 709 00:32:14,030 --> 00:32:12,690 life like that I mean I'm talking to you 710 00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:14,040 on the phone I might have SAT him 711 00:32:17,390 --> 00:32:15,840 through all if I touch that phone like 712 00:32:19,490 --> 00:32:17,400 it electrocuted I'm quite skeptical life 713 00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:19,500 doesn't work like that a lot of things 714 00:32:23,450 --> 00:32:21,600 you simply take as read and you get 715 00:32:25,340 --> 00:32:23,460 along with your life but when a claim 716 00:32:27,410 --> 00:32:25,350 comes along which contradicts the known 717 00:32:29,180 --> 00:32:27,420 laws of nature then your ears should 718 00:32:31,490 --> 00:32:29,190 prick up and you should be skeptical you 719 00:32:33,380 --> 00:32:31,500 should demand good evidence before you 720 00:32:35,710 --> 00:32:33,390 invest your emotions or your money into 721 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:35,720 it mmm why are you just the Australian 722 00:32:39,620 --> 00:32:37,650 scientists group no I mean I mean 723 00:32:42,890 --> 00:32:39,630 basically you're just scientific method 724 00:32:44,180 --> 00:32:42,900 all down the line right yeah but we you 725 00:32:46,610 --> 00:32:44,190 know from the early days we've 726 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:46,620 specialized in in the paranormal side of 727 00:32:51,470 --> 00:32:48,570 things lets you know that's the core of 728 00:32:53,270 --> 00:32:51,480 it it really grew out of the 1970s when 729 00:32:55,790 --> 00:32:53,280 people like uri geller or running around 730 00:32:58,250 --> 00:32:55,800 bending spoons and things like that and 731 00:33:00,500 --> 00:32:58,260 so do we still have is that sort of 732 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:00,510 stuff as common as it once was spoon 733 00:33:03,980 --> 00:33:02,250 bending now you at you are for the 734 00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:03,990 younger generation what spoon bending 735 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:06,480 illness is now look at you crazy you do 736 00:33:09,830 --> 00:33:07,890 for them they think it's a great trick 737 00:33:11,930 --> 00:33:09,840 but they haven't heard about it which 738 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:11,940 goes to show that if it was real you 739 00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:13,530 know if the people back then could 740 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:14,910 really bend spoons with the power of 741 00:33:19,010 --> 00:33:17,010 their mind then it would be an accepted 742 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:19,020 part of our society now what good it 743 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:20,970 would do I'm not sure hmm so I'm trying 744 00:33:24,110 --> 00:33:22,530 to think of the equivalent like do we 745 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:24,120 have an equivalent of spoon bending 746 00:33:28,340 --> 00:33:25,770 today you know what the spoon bending is 747 00:33:30,590 --> 00:33:28,350 morphed into ah that's a good question 748 00:33:33,530 --> 00:33:30,600 probably talking to the dead I mean we 749 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:33,540 get the hot shots coming out here from 750 00:33:36,890 --> 00:33:35,010 the states or whatever the case may be 751 00:33:38,450 --> 00:33:36,900 and claim they can actually talk to 752 00:33:41,270 --> 00:33:38,460 deceased people which is a pretty 753 00:33:44,870 --> 00:33:41,280 far-fetched claim they'll go on tabloid 754 00:33:48,620 --> 00:33:44,880 TV morning TV the women's magazines the 755 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:48,630 the ok so the magazines and then they go 756 00:33:54,620 --> 00:33:50,570 home what is one of the tricks to that 757 00:33:56,150 --> 00:33:54,630 the tricks are many and various you can 758 00:33:59,630 --> 00:33:56,160 buy books about it it's a quite an 759 00:34:04,250 --> 00:33:59,640 interesting study the the thumbnail 760 00:34:05,510 --> 00:34:04,260 sketch is you ask questions and you fed 761 00:34:07,130 --> 00:34:05,520 back the information 762 00:34:09,139 --> 00:34:07,140 and then you feed that information you 763 00:34:11,540 --> 00:34:09,149 get back to the person as if you're 764 00:34:13,310 --> 00:34:11,550 getting it from divine means or from 765 00:34:15,770 --> 00:34:13,320 beyond the grave there's many many 766 00:34:17,810 --> 00:34:15,780 subtleties to it it's there are many 767 00:34:20,060 --> 00:34:17,820 ways like you could say to an audience 768 00:34:21,620 --> 00:34:20,070 I'm getting a strange sensation who is 769 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:21,630 it I'm getting a father figure here 770 00:34:26,180 --> 00:34:23,490 who's the father figure and there's a 771 00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:26,190 red car now a father figure could mean a 772 00:34:31,550 --> 00:34:29,280 father a grandfather and uncle and older 773 00:34:34,399 --> 00:34:31,560 brother a good friend who's older a 774 00:34:37,310 --> 00:34:34,409 teacher and so on and so forth so you 775 00:34:38,270 --> 00:34:37,320 really throw out a lot of questions the 776 00:34:40,070 --> 00:34:38,280 audience and they're fed back 777 00:34:42,169 --> 00:34:40,080 information and they work from there but 778 00:34:44,270 --> 00:34:42,179 there are many ways to do it some of 779 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:44,280 them use what we call hot reading so 780 00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:46,050 they know a little bit about the person 781 00:34:50,810 --> 00:34:47,760 before they step out onto the stage so 782 00:34:51,889 --> 00:34:50,820 they've got a bit of a leg up hmm but 783 00:34:54,139 --> 00:34:51,899 it's that sort of feeling of the 784 00:34:55,399 --> 00:34:54,149 questions and it doesn't do to us it 785 00:34:56,690 --> 00:34:55,409 doesn't look like they're doing that 786 00:34:59,510 --> 00:34:56,700 doesn't know what what you did then you 787 00:35:01,850 --> 00:34:59,520 think well I would see that that people 788 00:35:04,580 --> 00:35:01,860 don't this is really interesting people 789 00:35:07,340 --> 00:35:04,590 don't and people don't remember a 790 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:07,350 reading the true nature of a reading 791 00:35:11,900 --> 00:35:09,690 after it's happened and though the 792 00:35:13,610 --> 00:35:11,910 questions I put before I'm sensing a 793 00:35:15,350 --> 00:35:13,620 father figure can anyone relate to that 794 00:35:18,890 --> 00:35:15,360 someone will say oh yeah my uncle Jim he 795 00:35:20,810 --> 00:35:18,900 just passed away when asked later they 796 00:35:23,060 --> 00:35:20,820 will most probably say that guy was 797 00:35:25,820 --> 00:35:23,070 amazing he contacted my uncle jim he 798 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:25,830 knew about my uncle jim right they don't 799 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:27,930 remember telling him yeah uncle yeah 800 00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:30,450 yeah and and that's we find that a very 801 00:35:34,100 --> 00:35:32,310 common thing but that's that's the way 802 00:35:38,180 --> 00:35:34,110 the human mind works the human mind is 803 00:35:40,970 --> 00:35:38,190 not an mp3 recorder of them an old VCR 804 00:35:43,010 --> 00:35:40,980 recorder memories reconstructions of the 805 00:35:44,450 --> 00:35:43,020 past they're not recording hmm Richard 806 00:35:45,980 --> 00:35:44,460 Saunders with us from the Australian 807 00:35:48,050 --> 00:35:45,990 skeptics yes they're still around and 808 00:35:52,250 --> 00:35:48,060 the skeptical is over 13 hundred triple 809 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:52,260 2 702 is anima Gordon good I James look 810 00:35:57,380 --> 00:35:55,050 I think spoon bending is not too much of 811 00:35:58,910 --> 00:35:57,390 a problem it doesn't hurt anybody but I 812 00:36:01,550 --> 00:35:58,920 think the one thing that we should be 813 00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:01,560 really skeptical of is the notion 814 00:36:06,620 --> 00:36:04,110 although continuously growing economy 815 00:36:08,270 --> 00:36:06,630 hey don't use that's teresita knock that 816 00:36:09,710 --> 00:36:08,280 what are you talking about call yeah I'd 817 00:36:11,540 --> 00:36:09,720 like to know what the skeptics think 818 00:36:13,700 --> 00:36:11,550 about that one because I think all of us 819 00:36:17,150 --> 00:36:13,710 should be deeply concerned because we're 820 00:36:19,290 --> 00:36:17,160 a growing economy a continuously growing 821 00:36:22,050 --> 00:36:19,300 economies gonna spoil our planet total 822 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:22,060 the universe is expanding Gordon why not 823 00:36:27,450 --> 00:36:24,610 the economy what a wonderful notion not 824 00:36:29,430 --> 00:36:27,460 only only I like to believe what i can 825 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:29,440 see i think in line with most of the 826 00:36:34,890 --> 00:36:32,650 skeptics and i can't see the universe 827 00:36:37,020 --> 00:36:34,900 expanding from where i see it now that's 828 00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:37,030 true but but you know the scientists 829 00:36:41,550 --> 00:36:39,730 tell us that they are that it did it are 830 00:36:43,170 --> 00:36:41,560 and so therefore i were to think the 831 00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:43,180 economy could expand forever more to 832 00:36:47,340 --> 00:36:45,040 fill up that space at the universe it's 833 00:36:49,740 --> 00:36:47,350 providing am i right Richard Saunders it 834 00:36:52,170 --> 00:36:49,750 might well do that indeed but i'm afraid 835 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:52,180 that expansion is out really out of our 836 00:36:58,230 --> 00:36:56,130 core level of expertise it's like we're 837 00:36:59,460 --> 00:36:58,240 analogy would be where dentist and 838 00:37:01,410 --> 00:36:59,470 someone comes along with the questions 839 00:37:03,300 --> 00:37:01,420 about the foot oh it's all very 840 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:03,310 interesting but that's not where out 841 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:05,050 skepticism lies are there ghosts 842 00:37:08,370 --> 00:37:06,610 involved there is there alternative 843 00:37:10,620 --> 00:37:08,380 medicine hmm we'll leave that question 844 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:10,630 probably but the on the notion of an 845 00:37:15,690 --> 00:37:12,850 ever growing economies is that is that 846 00:37:17,910 --> 00:37:15,700 out of your yeah yeah yeah that's that's 847 00:37:19,260 --> 00:37:17,920 an interesting topic but fine for 848 00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:19,270 another day but it's not where the 849 00:37:22,290 --> 00:37:20,710 australian skeptic so place their 850 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:22,300 interest caps for the for the economist 851 00:37:26,550 --> 00:37:25,450 1 300 triple 2 702 is that is there no 852 00:37:28,470 --> 00:37:26,560 if you're not things that you think we 853 00:37:30,030 --> 00:37:28,480 should be perhaps a skeptical about what 854 00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:30,040 you've seen people making these claims 855 00:37:37,100 --> 00:37:33,280 or saying things or or notion about how 856 00:37:41,660 --> 00:37:37,110 skeptical we should be in actual fact 857 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:41,670 hello there are darren i can okay should 858 00:37:47,850 --> 00:37:45,010 yes oh my question is I've sort of been 859 00:37:49,110 --> 00:37:47,860 listening to a few skeptics podcasts and 860 00:37:51,870 --> 00:37:49,120 just probably for the last couple of 861 00:37:53,790 --> 00:37:51,880 years or so and i'm just wondering with 862 00:37:56,790 --> 00:37:53,800 Richards long-term experience does he 863 00:38:00,030 --> 00:37:56,800 find the internet the x access to the 864 00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:00,040 internet you know answers on tap do you 865 00:38:05,970 --> 00:38:03,730 think that provides as much BS as it 866 00:38:10,110 --> 00:38:05,980 does answers and the people sort of like 867 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:10,120 getting believing in more you know woo 868 00:38:14,790 --> 00:38:12,850 as I like to say what do you think yeah 869 00:38:16,260 --> 00:38:14,800 what's the bosses been the effect of the 870 00:38:18,750 --> 00:38:16,270 of the internet on our skepticism 871 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:18,760 Richard both sides or it hinders both 872 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:20,050 sides if you want to look at it that way 873 00:38:25,110 --> 00:38:23,050 it's a it's the most marvelous resource 874 00:38:26,910 --> 00:38:25,120 the planet the human society has ever 875 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:26,920 known for information but that 876 00:38:33,180 --> 00:38:30,850 information is a mixed bag and as long 877 00:38:34,890 --> 00:38:33,190 as you approach it careful 878 00:38:37,670 --> 00:38:34,900 and with a certain amount of skepticism 879 00:38:40,849 --> 00:38:37,680 and you're diligent the internet is 880 00:38:43,410 --> 00:38:40,859 overflowing with really good information 881 00:38:45,690 --> 00:38:43,420 you just have to weed out the bad 882 00:38:47,790 --> 00:38:45,700 information not always easy not always 883 00:38:50,099 --> 00:38:47,800 easy and I think if you're looking for 884 00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:50,109 that which will confirm your view you 885 00:38:52,829 --> 00:38:51,520 will find it and then you will say but 886 00:38:55,319 --> 00:38:52,839 it's on the internet a very reputable 887 00:38:56,730 --> 00:38:55,329 site on a reputable site this is the 888 00:38:59,550 --> 00:38:56,740 informations the scientific information 889 00:39:01,349 --> 00:38:59,560 we all do that we all we all tend to 890 00:39:03,510 --> 00:39:01,359 look for information that confirms what 891 00:39:06,900 --> 00:39:03,520 we want to be true anyway that is part 892 00:39:09,569 --> 00:39:06,910 of being human mmm is it um you know are 893 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:09,579 we is it a personality type to have a 894 00:39:13,380 --> 00:39:11,410 skeptical questioning mind somebody who 895 00:39:15,569 --> 00:39:13,390 wants the evidence somebody who is who 896 00:39:18,210 --> 00:39:15,579 is open to change and so therefore 897 00:39:20,130 --> 00:39:18,220 that's or is it something that is 898 00:39:22,829 --> 00:39:20,140 educated in to us do we do we learner 899 00:39:24,329 --> 00:39:22,839 there's a part of our if educated world 900 00:39:27,780 --> 00:39:24,339 and that's how we should end up isn't it 901 00:39:29,849 --> 00:39:27,790 yeah ideally i mean i've been in the the 902 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:29,859 skeptical spheres now for quite a long 903 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:32,410 time and i have met all sorts of people 904 00:39:37,620 --> 00:39:35,530 you can't peg somebody and say this is a 905 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:37,630 skeptical personality type we have all 906 00:39:42,780 --> 00:39:40,690 sorts of people all nationalities both 907 00:39:45,510 --> 00:39:42,790 genders and other genders if they're out 908 00:39:48,809 --> 00:39:45,520 there and size and shapes and creeds and 909 00:39:50,930 --> 00:39:48,819 everyone all walks of life I make 910 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:50,940 skeptics around the world so you I 911 00:39:56,220 --> 00:39:54,130 imagine it's access to good information 912 00:39:58,710 --> 00:39:56,230 I think I think I've said that my you 913 00:40:00,150 --> 00:39:58,720 know if I think of the basics of my high 914 00:40:02,130 --> 00:40:00,160 school education without in worrying 915 00:40:03,780 --> 00:40:02,140 about University it was scientific 916 00:40:06,359 --> 00:40:03,790 method it was critical thinking in 917 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:06,369 English this kind of thing so to me at 918 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:08,770 the end of that period I was being told 919 00:40:12,809 --> 00:40:10,450 by the entire education system that I 920 00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:12,819 should be of a questioning mind why 921 00:40:16,589 --> 00:40:15,250 isn't everyone that's a good question i 922 00:40:20,670 --> 00:40:16,599 think partly because it's a lot easier 923 00:40:22,710 --> 00:40:20,680 not to be the default the position of 924 00:40:26,940 --> 00:40:22,720 the human brain when you hear something 925 00:40:29,490 --> 00:40:26,950 is to believe it and it takes a little 926 00:40:31,620 --> 00:40:29,500 bit extra effort to then start to 927 00:40:33,420 --> 00:40:31,630 question things it's just easier to 928 00:40:35,010 --> 00:40:33,430 believe interesting things you here and 929 00:40:37,020 --> 00:40:35,020 just say oh that must be true i heard it 930 00:40:39,180 --> 00:40:37,030 on the TV or the radio or i read it on 931 00:40:41,460 --> 00:40:39,190 the internet and you don't have to think 932 00:40:43,559 --> 00:40:41,470 much about it mmm Richard Saunders with 933 00:40:46,170 --> 00:40:43,569 us from the Australian skeptics Martin 934 00:40:47,069 --> 00:40:46,180 what did you want to raise Fisher said 935 00:40:50,969 --> 00:40:47,079 he was 936 00:40:54,029 --> 00:40:50,979 gets call about the anti-vaccine I 937 00:40:59,609 --> 00:40:54,039 wondered where they stood with all the 938 00:41:02,400 --> 00:40:59,619 renewable energy there was what has been 939 00:41:04,949 --> 00:41:02,410 proven now to have been a Neil founded 940 00:41:08,099 --> 00:41:04,959 story about wind turbine illness like 941 00:41:11,430 --> 00:41:08,109 that so I just wondered where they stood 942 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:11,440 on some of the arguments that are being 943 00:41:15,989 --> 00:41:14,410 given against renewable energy hmm wind 944 00:41:17,549 --> 00:41:15,999 turbine illnesses perhaps in particular 945 00:41:18,959 --> 00:41:17,559 Richard that's a that's a very 946 00:41:21,329 --> 00:41:18,969 interesting one there is no credible 947 00:41:24,019 --> 00:41:21,339 evidence to suggest that people get sick 948 00:41:27,209 --> 00:41:24,029 because of wind turbines they might 949 00:41:30,839 --> 00:41:27,219 report horrible effects and feeling 950 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:30,849 unwell as far as we can see that's more 951 00:41:34,799 --> 00:41:32,410 psychological and they work themselves 952 00:41:37,109 --> 00:41:34,809 up to it there's no mechanism that we 953 00:41:39,089 --> 00:41:37,119 know of that would a wind turbine would 954 00:41:41,370 --> 00:41:39,099 would have a very bad effect on 955 00:41:42,779 --> 00:41:41,380 somebody's health personally i don't 956 00:41:45,059 --> 00:41:42,789 mean the australian skeptics don't have 957 00:41:46,410 --> 00:41:45,069 a an official position on this sort of 958 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:46,420 thing again it's sort of drifting 959 00:41:51,329 --> 00:41:49,690 outside our realm personally I'm all for 960 00:41:53,130 --> 00:41:51,339 it you know the more renewable energy of 961 00:41:55,559 --> 00:41:53,140 course the better and the science 962 00:41:58,349 --> 00:41:55,569 progresses using the skeptical method 963 00:42:00,209 --> 00:41:58,359 the better we get at developing 964 00:42:01,979 --> 00:42:00,219 renewable energies and solar cells and 965 00:42:03,390 --> 00:42:01,989 things like that but the wind turbine 966 00:42:06,029 --> 00:42:03,400 lyst thing is also an interesting aspect 967 00:42:08,009 --> 00:42:06,039 in that in that people of a skeptical 968 00:42:09,569 --> 00:42:08,019 nature will happily believe they go yeah 969 00:42:11,549 --> 00:42:09,579 I thought so there would be something 970 00:42:13,019 --> 00:42:11,559 like that and when someone says no it's 971 00:42:16,170 --> 00:42:13,029 not actually found are they give it's 972 00:42:18,689 --> 00:42:16,180 been covered up by you know it's that 973 00:42:21,209 --> 00:42:18,699 sort of like it but what I mean is that 974 00:42:23,189 --> 00:42:21,219 you can be of inquiring mind yeah 975 00:42:26,099 --> 00:42:23,199 perfectly open the things but and so it 976 00:42:29,279 --> 00:42:26,109 will that that that narrative will fit 977 00:42:31,799 --> 00:42:29,289 into into your inquiring man view partly 978 00:42:33,689 --> 00:42:31,809 it's partly a problem with the word 979 00:42:35,670 --> 00:42:33,699 skeptic because all sorts of people love 980 00:42:38,969 --> 00:42:35,680 to use it we get people who say their 981 00:42:40,799 --> 00:42:38,979 911 skeptics or climate change skeptics 982 00:42:42,420 --> 00:42:40,809 or moon landing skeptics and we're 983 00:42:44,609 --> 00:42:42,430 sitting here saying no don't use that 984 00:42:46,049 --> 00:42:44,619 word don't use that word then there's 985 00:42:48,749 --> 00:42:46,059 people are tipping more into conspiracy 986 00:42:50,339 --> 00:42:48,759 theorist but the skeptic is a tricky 987 00:42:52,589 --> 00:42:50,349 word because it's used by a lot of 988 00:42:54,259 --> 00:42:52,599 people yeah I mean on the winter my 989 00:42:57,630 --> 00:42:54,269 think I feel like I heard the original 990 00:43:00,440 --> 00:42:57,640 interview with the there was an American 991 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:00,450 doctor a woman who wrote a book 992 00:43:05,569 --> 00:43:03,210 was quickly debunked and the book was 993 00:43:07,370 --> 00:43:05,579 based really on her own experience in 994 00:43:09,950 --> 00:43:07,380 her own practice the internet she wasn't 995 00:43:11,390 --> 00:43:09,960 really even a doctor if there was very 996 00:43:13,490 --> 00:43:11,400 little to it at all and I remember her 997 00:43:15,260 --> 00:43:13,500 being interviewed on yeah on ABC radio 998 00:43:16,819 --> 00:43:15,270 people put her on but within a year or 999 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:16,829 so people were happily relaying the 1000 00:43:20,420 --> 00:43:18,450 story I'll know there's been studies 1001 00:43:22,250 --> 00:43:20,430 done us that there's there's wind 1002 00:43:23,810 --> 00:43:22,260 turbine problems either these are very 1003 00:43:25,339 --> 00:43:23,820 hardly this is where we come back to an 1004 00:43:27,140 --> 00:43:25,349 internet question isn't it the internet 1005 00:43:29,870 --> 00:43:27,150 actually just fuels this stuff man it 1006 00:43:32,450 --> 00:43:29,880 does then as the ABCs media what show us 1007 00:43:34,250 --> 00:43:32,460 many times during the year media outlets 1008 00:43:37,609 --> 00:43:34,260 will just pick up on a story because 1009 00:43:39,230 --> 00:43:37,619 it's sexy and Han fact-checking can wait 1010 00:43:41,930 --> 00:43:39,240 for later on this is a hot story let's 1011 00:43:44,569 --> 00:43:41,940 present it now as we'll worry about the 1012 00:43:49,250 --> 00:43:44,579 facts later yeah Paul what did you want 1013 00:43:52,190 --> 00:43:49,260 to ask at me yep oh good very simple 1014 00:43:54,380 --> 00:43:52,200 question I or skeptic abs are all 1015 00:43:56,720 --> 00:43:54,390 skeptics atheists richardsaunders so in 1016 00:43:59,030 --> 00:43:56,730 fact we don't care if we have people in 1017 00:44:00,230 --> 00:43:59,040 the Australian skeptics who believe in 1018 00:44:02,810 --> 00:44:00,240 all sorts of religions that's not a 1019 00:44:04,700 --> 00:44:02,820 question we worry about we their 1020 00:44:07,819 --> 00:44:04,710 skepticism from what we're concerned 1021 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:07,829 with is more about you know the testable 1022 00:44:11,569 --> 00:44:10,050 claims of the paranormal or alternative 1023 00:44:14,150 --> 00:44:11,579 medicine and and this sort of thing 1024 00:44:16,370 --> 00:44:14,160 consumer affairs a person's private 1025 00:44:18,829 --> 00:44:16,380 religious beliefs is completely they're 1026 00:44:21,319 --> 00:44:18,839 their own affair and it really doesn't 1027 00:44:24,170 --> 00:44:21,329 interfere with skepticism a lot of 1028 00:44:28,010 --> 00:44:24,180 skeptics would be I would imagine but 1029 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:28,020 that's just how does it happens what the 1030 00:44:34,190 --> 00:44:30,770 pura skeptic position B agnosticism I 1031 00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:34,200 imagine so I imagine so but again we're 1032 00:44:38,359 --> 00:44:35,730 starting getting in the realms we leave 1033 00:44:41,390 --> 00:44:38,369 for people who are really interested in 1034 00:44:42,770 --> 00:44:41,400 that topic I mean we have the the 1035 00:44:46,250 --> 00:44:42,780 Australian atheists out there who can 1036 00:44:49,940 --> 00:44:46,260 give you a good talking about that again 1037 00:44:51,950 --> 00:44:49,950 we owe us it's a distraction you know if 1038 00:44:53,569 --> 00:44:51,960 people want to in their private hard one 1039 00:44:55,309 --> 00:44:53,579 to follow a certain religion that's 1040 00:44:57,050 --> 00:44:55,319 entirely their business you know it's 1041 00:44:59,000 --> 00:44:57,060 entirely their business let's get let's 1042 00:45:01,339 --> 00:44:59,010 both together go on a ghost hunt that's 1043 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:01,349 more fun Richard nice talk to you and 1044 00:45:04,190 --> 00:45:02,970 thanks for your recovery this morning 1045 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:04,200 good i have the convention goes well 1046 00:45:09,050 --> 00:45:06,210 thank you very much people can find out 1047 00:45:10,730 --> 00:45:09,060 about that skeptics calm day you and it 1048 00:45:12,650 --> 00:45:10,740 should be a great weekend Richard 1049 00:45:26,750 --> 00:45:12,660 Saunders former present of 1050 00:45:30,770 --> 00:45:26,760 Australian skeptics hey Heidi oh hi Joe 1051 00:45:34,339 --> 00:45:30,780 hi Heidi oh hi Maynard hi Maynard oh hi 1052 00:45:37,849 --> 00:45:34,349 Joe nice day in this park yeah yes great 1053 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:37,859 weather oh look a unicorn a unicorn 1054 00:45:44,029 --> 00:45:40,170 there are no such things as unicorns 1055 00:45:46,370 --> 00:45:44,039 silly yes there are no there isn't hey 1056 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:46,380 ladies what are you arguing about Joe 1057 00:45:51,740 --> 00:45:49,130 thinks unicorns are real they fo are 1058 00:45:54,980 --> 00:45:51,750 let's look this up in the skeptics 1059 00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:54,990 dictionary the word how can we do that 1060 00:45:59,630 --> 00:45:57,690 in this park there are no computers here 1061 00:46:02,480 --> 00:45:59,640 you ladies probably don't know about the 1062 00:46:05,329 --> 00:46:02,490 skeptics dictionary app available now 1063 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:05,339 for iPhone iPad and iPod touch in the 1064 00:46:09,890 --> 00:46:07,890 App Store yeah we do we've been 1065 00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:09,900 listening to the skeptic zone for years 1066 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:14,250 you know yes ok the app lets you access 1067 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:16,170 all the great skeptics dictionary 1068 00:46:22,700 --> 00:46:19,890 articles when you're on the go yeah let 1069 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:22,710 me look up unicorns oh cool Heidi 1070 00:46:28,099 --> 00:46:25,650 prepare to be proven wrong it says here 1071 00:46:31,460 --> 00:46:28,109 the Unicorn is a creature from fables 1072 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:31,470 aha actually I see now that someone just 1073 00:46:35,510 --> 00:46:32,970 dumped their ice cream cone on that 1074 00:46:37,910 --> 00:46:35,520 horse's head thanks skeptic ditching 1075 00:46:50,210 --> 00:46:37,920 their iphone app that's just some guy in 1076 00:46:56,790 --> 00:46:53,010 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1077 00:46:59,580 --> 00:46:56,800 zone and if you're coming to see my 1078 00:47:03,470 --> 00:46:59,590 photography exhibition in Sydney I hope 1079 00:47:05,940 --> 00:47:03,480 you do enjoy that 204 to cafe and deli 1080 00:47:07,620 --> 00:47:05,950 link is on the show notes for this week 1081 00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:07,630 episode although it's pretty easy to 1082 00:47:13,620 --> 00:47:11,680 find just south of Newtown train station 1083 00:47:16,140 --> 00:47:13,630 on King Street I'm looking forward to 1084 00:47:18,270 --> 00:47:16,150 seeing you at the amazing meeting in Las 1085 00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:18,280 Vegas in July if you're coming along if 1086 00:47:22,890 --> 00:47:20,170 you are coming along and you see me 1087 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:22,900 please come up and say hello I I do 1088 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:25,210 enjoy that but for this week this is 1089 00:47:31,350 --> 00:47:27,850 Richard Saunders and Fred the cat who is 1090 00:47:37,620 --> 00:47:31,360 now sound asleep signing off from Sydney 1091 00:47:40,140 --> 00:47:37,630 Australia you've been listening to the 1092 00:47:43,980 --> 00:47:40,150 skeptics own podcast visit our website 1093 00:47:47,250 --> 00:47:43,990 at wwc a petting zoo TV for contacts and 1094 00:47:50,430 --> 00:47:47,260 archive of all episodes since 2008 and 1095 00:47:52,470 --> 00:47:50,440 our online store please support the 1096 00:47:55,830 --> 00:47:52,480 skeptic zone by following us on twitter 1097 00:47:59,340 --> 00:47:55,840 at skeptic zone liking us on facebook 1098 00:48:00,840 --> 00:47:59,350 and leaving a review on iTunes you can 1099 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:00,850 also show your support by subscribing 1100 00:48:07,740 --> 00:48:04,690 via paypal for as little as 99 cents a 1101 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:07,750 week the skeptic zone is an independent 1102 00:48:11,820 --> 00:48:09,370 production the views and opinions 1103 00:48:13,890 --> 00:48:11,830 expressed on the skeptic zone and not